Rolling The Dice

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Rolling The Dice

Post by Kog » Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:07 am

So a commonly complained about mechanic is the test <thing> function. As it stands right now, you can test str normal with super-human str and still have some % chance to fail. From my own testing, at 50 rolls per difficulty, the following results were found:

automatic: 50 success, 0 failure, 0 tie (100% success)
trivial: 50 success, 0 failure, 0 tie (100% success)
extremely easy: 45 success, 5 failure, 0 tie (90% success)
very easy: 44 success, 6 failure, 0 tie (88% success)
easy: 26 success, 24 failure, 0 tie (52% success)
normal: 25 success, 25 failure, 0 tie (50% success)
hard: 15 success, 35 failure, 0 tie (30% success)
very hard: 11 success, 39 failure, 0 tie (22% success)
extremely hard: 4 success, 46 failure, 0 tie (8% success)
insane: 0 success, 50 failure, 0 tie (0% success)
impossible: 0 success, 50 failure, 0 tie (0% success)

Which means, for an average person, doing something normal has a 50/50 chance of working. This is at 0 pain, stuffed, sated, not drunk, and not burdened. It makes things a little strange, and despite my outliers (88% to 52%), I think I have a ROUGH range of where things go in terms of difficulty.

What I'd like to suggest is that normal be 100% success (or some 90%+). Everything else easier by steps, everything beyond harder by the same steps. These would be influenced MORE heavily by 'ideal' situations (not tired, not penalized somehow, etc.) That way, when it's time to test vs normal for something a normal person could see, while being a normal person yourself, you...see it. The current system is very RNG-heavy, where I could get way lucky and pass an extremelyhard roll for my str and move a giant boulder...then immediately sprain my wrist picking up the 30lb weight at normal with a major failure.

EDIT: For clarity, this was average dex for all tests. I could try other stats as wanted, but I suspect it's the same formula. I could also test skills, but those seem iffy since governing stat might come into play too.

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Re: Rolling The Dice

Post by Aali » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:02 am

Another player put it in a way that totally struck me as true for myself too: I've never rolled a success when I needed it. I might even extend that to most of the time when I don't. Basically, I don't learn interesting things for attempting to be proactive, even if it's supposed to be 'easy' or 'normal' for me. It must hurt people like me who decide not to go with extreme stats, too, since they're so much closer to rolling 50/50 across all rolls.

I'm in favor of some things being a flat comparison, maybe modifying how long, loud, effective or obvious you are if it's something that you could do within a span of twenty minutes. Like, I don't have a <52% chance of carrying my groceries home as an 'easy' task even with my crappy poor strength arms. I might take longer and look stupider if they're really heavy, but I'm going to make it.

Regardless - I wouldn't have written the original post because I think the randomness is bonkers in a way that Labmud is bonkers, but it renders characters and their actions and proficiencies kind of meaningless in a way that's disheartening.

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Re: Rolling The Dice

Post by Krelm » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:46 am

A few notes:

As someone said in discord, pretty much 90% of what happens behind the scenes in labmud with rolling (like combat and hiding and stuff) uses the same system as the test system - changing the test system would require a pretty massive overhaul. It would be a lot easier to just change 'normal' to 'hard' or whatever.

However, if Labmud uses the same range that the RPI system used, an "average" stat could be 10, 11, or 12, and it's entirely possible that Kog had a 10, which is only one step above poor - there's no real way to know without an admin outright telling him.

Also, from what I recall, the 'test' system doesn't just roll once and give you a success/fail. I could be misremembering, but it basically rolls your stat/skill three times, and bases the overall success rate on how well you rolled those three tests (where three passes is a major success and three fails is a major failure). If you're rolling vs someone it compares both of your passes and fails and determines the winner that way.

And really, it depends on what's being rolled, and why, and when. I don't imagine an admin would make you roll to carry groceries, for example, because lift/carry/drag weight is already coded in. I obviously haven't seen every dice roll that Zauren has made everyone roll ever, but from my experience it tends to happen in two or three occasions; it's been used to help facilitate something that doesn't quite exist yet (like crafting something simple, or transplanting an organ); it's been used to decide RP combat/physical actions that don't necessarily call for code (rolling combat instinct and then str vs someone else to see if you manage to shove them); and it's been used to test certain attributes under extreme duress (trying to avoid falling debris, trying to not inhale sword mist, etc).

On a personal level, it doesn't really bother me - sometimes the dice just fail you.

Parting thought also: 50 is a good number of rolls to determine an average, but without knowing exact numbers, and without getting more people to test, I don't think it's very indicative of a system's short-comings or otherwise. Maybe if we got 10 people with the exact same number in a stat to roll like 200 times and it came out the same way, then I'd be a lot more convinced.

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Re: Rolling The Dice

Post by acceleration » Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:40 pm

I rolled an average stat 100 times not too long ago and got 45 successes at normal difficulty (while likely burdened), so I'd guess Kog's numbers for average are pretty close to on point.

For a competent level skill (with -probably- a 'great' or possibly 'super' governing stat), I passed 29/100 for normal difficulty, 38/100 for easy, 59/100 for very easy. Again, burden probably applied.

I would say that 'competent' level skills should be renamed to something slightly less misleading regarding skill level.

I think where people are having issues RP-wise is, right now, there is no way to improve crafting skills, and the number baseline for difficulty level is on the obscure side. A lot of times when Zauren asks for a roll, there is risk involved, which makes sense and is great. Unfortunately, if you're doing something risky to begin with and it involves a skill you have no way to practice or improve, it's a little rough when it's something you have virtually no chance of success at. This will definitely change when crafting officially comes in and people can start grinding.

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Re: Rolling The Dice

Post by Krelm » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:08 pm

I could really just be a naming thing, because if you look at the skill levels:
General Skills:
Incompetent, Familiar, Competent, Skilled, Expert, Masterful, Epic, Legendary, Godly
A PC will never see incompetent, so competent is something like 20 or 30, which I wouldn't expect to pass all that often. Example being combat - you're pretty much total garbage fresh out of chargen.

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